Egoraptor Tackles the Legend of Zelda Series

Egoraptor Tackles the Legend of Zelda Series

by Steve Napierski to Videos

Damn, it’s been over two years now since the last installment of Sequelitis. I bet that Egoraptor is going to get a decent bunch of hate mail from this installment of Sequelitis. Fans love A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, a lot… rabidly a lot. Nonetheless, he does bring up some valid points. I guess that’s part of the reason why the next installment of The Legend of Zelda is supposedly going back to an open world, again.

Nonetheless, this was definitely a really good episode and worth the watch.

source: YouTube

Discussion (12)¬

  1. David
    David says:
    July 8, 2014 at 7:51 pm #

    Eh, I can agree with a lot of things in the video, but after seeing Arin play Wind Waker I don’t think I can ever trust his opinion on Zelda. Mr ‘I just got the bombs, there’s a rock with a huge crack in it, better blow at it with my leaf!’.

  2. Hythrain
    Hythrain says:
    July 8, 2014 at 10:03 pm #

    I’ve come to the conclusion that on Game Grumps, Arin intentionally messes around quite a bit. There are some games where, yea, he’s legitimately not good, but other games I think he intentionally messes up for the audience. I mean, how much did he claim to be awesome at Pokemon and look at how that shit turned out.

    • David
      David says:
      July 9, 2014 at 4:56 am #

      It’s definitely a factor, but I think it’s mostly just the way he has to scour the game for material while playing it. It’s hard enough having a two man unscripted show where you don’t constantly talk over each other without having to play a game. With something like Zelda it’s an improv overload, there’s potentially funny stuff everywhere on top of the running gags and conversations, but he’s also meant to be busy looking at puzzles, thinking back to things that were previously blocked off, etc.
      You can see a very big difference when he’s playing a game he doesn’t know that requires thought beyond what’s currently on the screen and when he’s playing a game he either already knows or doesn’t know but is free to run a rather simple path. Like Metal Storm doesn’t require going back to the blue door after finding the blue key, so he’s pretty good at playing it and maintaining a funny dialogue.
      Obviously there are a few exceptions to that like Mario Sunshine, but Mario Sunshine is a legitimately hard game.

  3. Hythrain
    Hythrain says:
    July 8, 2014 at 10:27 pm #

    I can agree on a lot of points, but there’s one thing he bitched about, constantly and with no relation to the topic of LTTP vs. OOT, that I can’t: Skyward Sword. Is it a linear game? Yes, I won’t pretend it’s not. However, one thing I’ve noticed is that as Zelda games got more and more linear, their stories got more and more detailed. Skyward Sword is, in a way, a pinnacle of this. The game details the story of the creation of the Master Sword, the beginning of Hyrule and even the origin of the Link/Zelda reincarnation cycle. But whereas LTTP and even OoT were able to break each chunk of story off on its own section of the game thus allowing you the freedom to have SOME control where you go, Skyward Sword had no such option. You start in the sky and need to go to the ground to get the story going. You then spend three dungeons following Zelda which, by the way, can’t be changed because the order of them is the closest one to you, which it’d make sense for Zelda to go to first, the second one which is the only dungeon that’d allow wiggle room, then the third one which ends… well, how it ends! It HAS to end at this point, because this is the location of the gate. And they can’t just put another gate at both temples, because the whole idea was there was only two: the one that’s destroyed and the one you can’t activate without the Master Sword. Just arbitrarily putting time gates at the other two dungeons messes with this plot point and makes any follow up significantly harder to write.

    Now this is the part of the game where they probably could’ve done some variation. Instead of needing three songs to keep going, they could’ve only done one song that did all three. This is the only part of the game that would properly allow for this within the story. But after these three dungeons you reach the end of the game, where there’s only one place to go.

    He’s arguing that Skyward Sword is a bad game because it plays linear, but he completely ignores the positives of doing that: giving a far more immersive story that sets up the Zelda universe and a LOT of its lore and legends. This is the trade off for better story: being more linear. It’s something he doesn’t address because he simply doesn’t care about it. It’s why I don’t fully agree with him, because story matters to me. I like seeing the story they make in Zelda games along with any other game. That’s why I’m torn when it comes to A Link Between Worlds. I like the game but the story felt much weaker in exchange for its open freedom.

  4. TheyCallMeTomu
    TheyCallMeTomu says:
    July 8, 2014 at 10:55 pm #

    I agree with everything he said! But I don’t like Zelda as a franchise.

    I’m like, the only person in the world that really liked Zelda 2

    • Hythrain
      Hythrain says:
      July 9, 2014 at 5:55 pm #

      You’re not alone! I found it a fun and very difficult game.

  5. MediaDuke
    MediaDuke says:
    July 8, 2014 at 11:22 pm #

    I honestly haven’t watched Game Grumps since Jon left (no hatred for Danny, I just liked Jon and Arin’s banter a lot more; Arin and Ross’s is the closest currently to it), so I could be off, but it seems like Arin doesn’t like RPGs on the whole because they are so focused on the story that gameplay can become secondary. And I get it! I personally love RPGs, but Arin’s focus in Sequelitis is on how the gameplay IS the story/driving force for the player (X’s personal power growth, the layout of Castlevania teaching you how to move forward, etc.), and for RPGs, this is rarely the case. You grind, you get more powerful, you face the boss. The payoff for RPGs is the story with the gameplay being a means to the end, not the reason to play, and the Zelda series has become more of an RPG. I didn’t dislike Skyward Sword because I was still really intrigued with how the story was going to turn out.

    He absolutely brings up some valid points, though, and some I’d like to see incorporated. A Goron buddy who makes you want to find more rocks because he’s so strong? I would’ve loved that in Ocarina of Time! And fewer companions who make you want to tear out your hair. Fi would’ve been SO much more interesting if she had needed to wrestle with emotions that were being created within her rather than being a soulless automaton throughout nearly all of the game UNTIL THE VERY END (at which point I just didn’t care). I don’t need to know that my health is low, Fi, THAT’S WHAT THE BEEPING IS FOR!!!

    I’m excited to see if the new, open world Zelda can be something new for exploration while still keeping the storytelling elements we know and love.

    • David
      David says:
      July 9, 2014 at 5:40 am #

      Aside from the controls Skyward Sword isn’t badly designed it’s just draining to play. It’s not that it’s physically draining it’s just sort of like you’re dragging the game with you. It fights you almost non-stop. Fable: The Journey’s half functional Kinect controls were the same. Knowing that you can do something just fine but the game doesn’t recognise it properly makes it so that even if the game is only asking something simple of you it feels like it’s asking you to move mountains.

      As for Arin and RPGs I think you’re right, but in this case I get the impression a lot of it stems from the anti-3D mindset a lot of us had back then. I remember finding out Mega Man Legends was a 3D game and it was like ‘god damn it Capcom, seriously? You have to make another great 2D series into a lousy half baked 3D husk of what it was’. Granted after I played it I fell in love, but games like that were the exception to the rule. So many other games were just ruined by the pressure to be reborn 3D even if the team had no idea what to do.
      It seems like at the time he was against 3D Zelda, that caused him to dislike OoT at the time and now he’s justifying that by pointing out every minor thing that didn’t work flawlessly. He bashes the game for being different to Zelda and for being the same as Zelda.

      I do like these videos but I think the game is a bit too complicated for what he does on the show. He completely slams parts that totally work because they’re not part of his ideal Zelda game. He gives no mercy for things that were experimental at the time. With the previous games they were simple enough that his ideal aligned with good design and when something didn’t work it was obvious the second you had the controller in your hand, but Ocarina of Time is complicated enough that he’s just talking about an alternate pathway the design could have taken.

      • Dec
        Dec says:
        July 9, 2014 at 3:25 pm #

        I agree with you, Arin’s argument seemed a bit less thought trough this time.

        I.e. his argument about the buildup after you received the master key to the dungeon, on one side he praises the buildup (“backtracking to the chest and boss) while he dismisses the buildup at a chest that is created by the camera work / cinematic.

        I agree that for an good puzzle “The journey is its own reward”. But I don’t agree on that the 2D Zeldas had much better puzzles. The amount of bad or good designed puzzles is about the same in every game, there are always a few of them, where I struggle to find the correct answer, because I overlooked something or was in the wrong mindset. They are just “different” and I learned to appreciate it.

        Oh and while I’m a huge Zelda Fan, I never beat even one single dungeon in Zelda 1 … I’ve spent hours searching for one of them and never found one …. so much for having the freedom to explore the world on your own.

        • Hythrain
          Hythrain says:
          July 9, 2014 at 6:08 pm #

          You’d be amazed how difficult it is to access all the dungeons. I should note that even from Zelda 1, you had to do them in a certain order. All the dungeons are even marked with a number when you enter them, suggesting an order. In addition, certain dungeons held certain items you needed to either find or advance in another dungeon. For example, you can’t enter Dungeon 4 until you get the raft, which is from Dungeon 3. Most dungeons after 4 you can’t do without the ladder from Dungeon 4. You can’t do 7 without the flute which is from 5. In addition, all of the dungeons do have their own difficulty. As you get higher up, enemies become harder.

          After beating certain dungeons you can unlock new swords which are more powerful. The level 2 sword can be obtained after beating Dungeon 3, and the level 3 sword after beating dungeon 6.

          While you have the open world, there’s still an order you have to do things. You can’t progress through some dungeons without items from previous dungeons. Hell, the locations for dungeons 7, 8 and 9 (9 being Ganon’s dungeon) are DAMN hard to find. None of them have standard big entrances, they’re hidden throughout locations in the game and unless you know where to find them you’re going to waste a lot of time looking.

          In short, you’re not missing out on much because much like LTTP, you have an open world but there still is a sort of order you have to take. LTTP just made the effort of saying “HERE’S WHERE THE DUNGEONS ARE,” and this is something Arin NEVER addresses.

          • David
            David says:
            July 9, 2014 at 8:03 pm #

            To this day I have no idea how I found the entrance to dungeon 8 (same can be said for a lot of things, like the maze directions). I guess it must just be good map design that made me gravitate towards the idea of burning that specific bush because I found it earlier than I actually did the dungeon. Still, if you miss it there’s a thousand things you’d try when looking for a dungeon and burning one specific bush in the middle of nowhere isn’t ranked high on that list.

  6. acher4
    acher4 says:
    July 13, 2014 at 4:50 pm #

    Yikes. I could accept some thing, even though they still are nitpicking. But daaaamn, his attitude towards deeper stories in the media of gaming is infuriating. He doesn’t like story driven games….okay man, you seem to play the wrong games then. Go back to the 80…
    I mean, seriously?